This Guru is Back from the Dead

In 2011 Frank Kern was at the top of the marketing world. He held his epic List Control seminar in San Diego, California, and all the big dogs were there, including Mike Geary (who had just met his future wife, Nayri), Joel (with his new wife, Lisa), Vinny (with his new wife, Flavia), and so on. Even Bedros and I were there kicking it. That was the weekend that we first met Shaun Hadsall, but it would be a couple of years before Shaun’s success kicked in. Still… Kern was on top of the world.

Then Kern kind of disappeared. Sure, he still came to our Mastermind meetings as our guest, and he sent out a few email broadcasts and sold a few things, but it wasn’t like before 2011 when he was all over the place and out-front as a guru.

Little did people know that Bedros was helping him behind the scenes to “go legit.” Kern made big changes – both personally and professionally – and has dramatically increased the positive impact of his business thanks to Big B’s ideas.

Today Kern has emerged and is once again delivering his killer content. He recently was featured on the Perpetual Traffic Podcast from Ryan Deiss’s team. I had the audio transcribed just for you… Enjoy – Craig


The Deiss Podcast with Frank Kern

You’re listening to Perpetual Traffic with Keith Krance, Molly Pittman, and Ralph Burns.

Keith: Welcome to episode #14 of Perpetual Traffic. Once again, I’ve got Molly Pittman, Ralph Burns and myself, Keith Krance, along with a very special guest that I know you’re going to really enjoy today. Over the past few episodes, we walked you through how to create the perfect cold audience type of ad, how to create the perfect warm and hot audience type of ad. Before that, we walked you through really how to use content marketing, paid traffic, how to find your perfect audience and put your message out in front of that perfect audience the right way, all stuff really before the click. And starting today, we’re going to walk you through really how to get the most value from each one of those clicks. And there’s nobody out there better than Mr. Frank Kern, sometimes known as Dr. Frank Kern, at helping you craft the perfect campaign to create the highest value per click and also create goodwill all along the way, which is the theme of this show. That’s why we’re excited to have Frank Kern on.

Frank is known as the highest paid direct response internet marketing copywriter and consultant on the planet. He’s the creator of some of the highest grossing launches in the history of the internet marketing, digital marketing space. He’s an advisor to celebrities like Tony Robbins and Brendon Burchard and over the past couple of years, he’s been running webinar campaigns that are generating over half a million dollars per campaign. He’s going to talk about his three-tiered system for creating paid traffic campaigns to sell high-priced products and services. What I really love is Frank’s three types of Facebook ad campaigns you need to generate sales and how to deploy them using his value and advanced strategy. He’s got some really cool stuff so please, please take serious notes with this episode and enjoy this episode. So Frank, are you there?

Frank: I am, yeah. I love the use of the fake credentials, and if we’re going to use my fake credentials, actually my real fake title is Dr. Frank Kern, attorney-at-law, chief engineer with NASA, retired.

Keith: That’s what I’m talking about.

Frank: It just sounds better than simply falsified medical credentials.

Ralph: I know so why didn’t we have that in the show notes ahead of time? No esquire in there?

Frank: Well, I mean the attorney-at-law implies the esquire so you use one or the other but both would be redundant. I only like to be redundant when I repeat myself so.

Keith: Yeah, it was a little-long winded intro but the reason why is because we’re excited to have you on because we talk about this all the time – how can you be creating goodwill generating leads, generating customers and what Frank does, I have been able to really see how he not only does it in his business, in his campaigns but how he teaches it to some of his high end clients and it’s just so masterfully done. We’re just excited to have you on because the stuff that you understand of the psychology behind where people are at and how to bring people into your world and present the right offer at the right time. If you’re listening right now, pay close attention, take notes because the little things are what makes the biggest difference. So once again, thanks for coming on. We appreciate it.

Frank: Yeah. Well, what do you guys want to talk about?

Keith: You see a lot of people out there that are selling high ticket coaching, right? Or trying to bring people under their world that are selling expensive products and services. So I guess one of the questions I have is what’s one of the biggest mistakes that you see people out there making when it comes to running Facebook ads or running paid traffic or any marketing to people out there that are selling an expensive service or product?

Frank: Well, the very first thing that I see and, I don’t know, this might not be going on as much because I’m like even weirder than one might suspect, I advertise very, very heavily on Facebook but I’ve never actually looked at anything other than the ad manager within Facebook so I have no idea what other people are doing but the last time I looked, I saw a lot of folks that would be running ads to sell high end coaching on Facebook to teach people how to run ads to sell high end coaching on Facebook to teach people how to run ads to sell it.

Molly: So meta.

Frank: The first thing is you don’t want to do that. You actually have to know what you’re doing. Nothing we talk about will be effective for someone who is just simply cloning a kind of a shell game. Assuming you can actually get value for the client, it’s a very easy process and it comes down to a couple of things. The first is understanding the three different types of campaigns to deploy. So we’ve got the low hanging fruit campaign which are for people who already know, like and trust you. We have a mid-level campaign or process and that’s for people who might not necessarily know you but they know that they need the solution that you can offer and they just don’t necessarily know you offer it yet. But they might have heard of you or something so it’s kind of a mid-level, slightly warm, not completely cold. And then the third is the cold campaign and these are people who have no idea who you are and they might not even know that they’ve got the problem to the degree that they actually have and then therefore might not even really be actively looking for it. So the first thing I always advise people to do is to understand there are three different categories of the world there that we can go after, if that makes sense.

Keith: And it’s very similar to what we talked about a few episodes ago. We talked about people who might be unaware that there’s even a problem and this would be kind of like that cold traffic. Then there’s those people that might know they have a problem but they’re unaware that you have a solution for that problem. That’s kind of like the mid-level, which you would kind of consider that mid-level. And then low hanging fruit, that’s like people that already know you, they might already be on your list, they might already have visited one of your blog posts or they might even be a customer or one of your fans.

Frank: So when it comes to the concept of selling the expensive stuff, all of these, well actually the first one of them, the low hanging fruit campaign where they already know you, you can just literally run an ad to them that says hey, I’ve got this thing and if you’re interested, fill in your name and email address and I’ll send to you some information about it. We actually run that type of ad. Our primary business in my company is we’ve designed these dynamic funnels for people, it’s really just an interwoven series of dynamically responsive campaigns that change the messaging depending on the user behavior. So we do all that and then we teach them how to implement it and all these kind of stuff.

So the folks who know us, we’ll literally run an ad that says hey, we’re doing a workshop and if you come, we’ll build all these campaigns for you and then we’ll teach you how to use them and then we’ll get on the horn with you every week and you can come to as many workshops as you want and enter your name and email and phone number and we’ll get back to you with information if you want to come. So that is very, very effective as a very simple process within the world of people who already know, like and trust you. So that’s kind of a fairly simple approach.

The other two mid-level and/or cold involve a much more sophisticated approach. So the first thing you have to realize is when you’re selling anything high end, whether it’s consulting or estate planning for example or financial planning or coaching to a degree, I think that’s a relatively overused term, but if you’re selling anything like that, it’s usually very, very unlikely that the prospect is going to make the decision to become a client on the internet, which means they almost always have to talk to somebody. That’s typically going to be you if you’re a solopreneur or an operator or someone on staff. We have a person in our office who helps.

So the first step is to understand the purpose of the campaign is not to sell the stuff at all. It’s not to get them to give you any money. It’s simply to get them to request that initial phone call with you, if that makes sense. When I work with people that are in a higher ticket field, that’s the first thing we fix. They stop trying to sell the thing and they realize okay, in order for me to get money, in order for me to get this customer, I must have the conversation therefore I sell the conversation. So in any campaign, it makes sense to reverse engineer exactly what must occur before you get money — in this case, it’s a conversation — and then determine okay, what must occur before the conversation happens? And then you say well, they have to request it and schedule it. You say okay, what must occur before that? Then the answer is they need to be aware of the problem and the solution. Then you say, what must occur in order for that to happen? Then they must opt in. So we reverse engineer the whole thing.

Keith: A lot of times we see people that have a good kind of mid-level type campaign but it starts to run out, right? They start to run out but then they don’t understand that they really need to create some kind of a cold campaign, kind of waking people up, letting them realize that there actually is a problem. Did you see that much?

Frank: Oh yeah. Well, especially in the little demographic that we spoke about earlier. So the function of a cold campaign is to take the prospect from cold to mid-level to warm and the way we do that is to deliver goodwill. The way we create that goodwill is to use the oldest “trick” in the book which is to demonstrate you can help them by actually helping them. So it’s pretty simple but most people just don’t do it.

There are a couple of things we have to understand psychologically within the mind of the prospect and the first one is they do not care about us to the degree that we believe they care about us. That doesn’t mean they don’t like us. It doesn’t mean they’re disinterested but usually we’ll go into a campaign and by we, I just mean we as entrepreneurs, we’ll create this campaign, we’ll say I’ve got 100 opted in, no one’s giving me any money yet, everything was terrible, it’s the end of the world. And we’re doing that, operating under the belief that they’ve opted in and they’re just waiting for the email now.

But what’s really occurring is they’ll opt-in let’s say to get a free report or something, a great way to get people to opt in, free report, white paper, video, whatever, maybe and then what actually happens is usually half of them won’t even go to read the very thing that they opted in for. It has nothing to do with you or your offer or anything. It’s the fact that we’re dealing with humans in the internet. I always joke around with clients. I said you’ve got to understand your biggest competition is procrastination and nudity. You are literally having to get them away from texting, instant messaging and nudity on the internet and all of that stuff is more appealing than us no matter what we’ve got. It’s really hard to beat the appeal.

You have to approach a campaign, first of all, knowing that a lot of the people are not going to do what you want them to do so you have to build a contingency. The second thing that you’ve got to do is you have to understand that it’s highly unlikely that a cold person is going to say yes, I want to talk to you about becoming a client until they have really been helped. So here’s where, especially on the higher level, you have to make a very significant shift in the way you think about this. We, as marketers, especially anyone who’s listening from “internet marketing community” where most sales are built on the chest thump factor, “Look at me. Look how great I am,” with a higher level client and this is almost true within any situation, they’re never buying your past. They are buying what they believe you can do for their future.

So if we accept that as true, if we say okay, that the people aren’t going to give me money because I did something cool a couple of years ago, they’re going to give me money because they think I can help them and get my cool is all, if we accept that as truth then we can immediately extrapolate that to the fact that hey, all of our marketing needs to demonstrate that they can have a better future by working with us. The best way to demonstrate that is to give them a better now.

What you do in a cold campaign really is, first of all, you don’t try to sell anything and second of all, you understand that it’s highly unlikely that they’re going to say please call me within any given moment so you take a lot of passes at that offer. So I guess it probably would be helpful if I sort of talked about how to make the offer and then talk about the multiple angles of approach maybe for doing that within a campaign?

Keith: Absolutely. Absolutely because I love when we had that call a few weeks back and you talked about you have to assume they are not going to do what you want them to do and I just love that. So yeah, let’s do it.

Frank: Yeah, they definitely won’t do. Think about it – if the majority of people did what we wanted them to do, we would be getting at least a 51% conversion on stuff which would make us the greatest marketers in the history of the world and we would have solid gold statues of ourselves within the direct response hall of fame. It just doesn’t happen. It’s not supposed to happen so to expect it to happen is like expecting the Colorado River to change course. You know it just isn’t going to work. So you want to go with the flow of that river rather than trying to change it.

So the first thing we want to do is understand when you’re selling anything expensive that involves a telephone call or a personal demonstration or whatever it may be, our goal, the entire goal of the marketer is to get the client to request that call, A; B) request the call with the understanding that the reason they are having the call is because they will have the option to become your client; and C) understanding how much it costs to become a client in the event that they want to become one. If you’re not building that in, you’re going to have the “strategy situation” where the guy requests a call with you and then half of your call is trying to justify your price, which he wasn’t expecting because he never knew how much it costs. So the only thing you cannot recover is time in your life. We can always make more money. We can make more food. We can’t make more time. So there’s no point in the world of you doing any sort of a demonstration call, whether it’s a free consult or a software demo unless they know what they’re getting into. Plus, it’s just cooler for them, like you don’t want to surprise anybody.

So the way we build that and the way how clients build it is we create something called an irresistible entry offer. Basically, what that does is it’s the offer to help them for free which of course causes the client to be all like what’s that all about? The second step is to explain the benefits of the offer, which of course is going to cause the prospect to say, why in world would you do that? So the third step is to be brutally honest and straightforward by confessing the reason you’re doing the call, which is of course, I usually use the words, “The reason we’re doing this is because a percentage of the people we do this for want to become clients.”

Now the prospect is fully aware that you’re going to try to sell them something. He’s terrified and his mind is immediately saying, this is going to be a sales pitch and I wonder how much it costs so we address both of those. Step 4 is to tell them how much it costs. In the event you decide to become a client, here’s how much it costs and here’s what we do for you, which now means they’re definitely not going to want to talk to you, right, because you just straightforward admitted you’re going to try to sell them something for a lot of money. So the next step, and this is very important, is you reassure them that it’s not going to be a sales pitch in disguise by saying something along the lines of, “I promise you this will not be a sales pitch in disguise,” which causes them to at least be a little bit less taken aback but by no means are they going to believe us just because we said so. We’re marketers. Nobody believes us.

The next step is to then create something I call extreme risk reversal, where you say, “As a matter of fact, I’m so confident that you will find our conversation to be of great value to you that if at the end you tell me that I wasted your time, I’ll give you something.” In our office, we pay them. You say, “If you think this was a waste of your time and this whole thing sucked, we’ll give you some money to compensate you for the hour we spent together so either way you come out ahead.” So now psychologically, they’re leaning forward a little bit. They say okay, now I’m interested. So whenever that happens, you want to start taking away from them.

What we do is we then use the next step which is take away. In our case, we simply list the criteria that they must meet in order to be willing to talk to them. And this isn’t made up, stupid stuff. This is where you literally list the criteria of your perfect client. So in our case, we say, “You have to have a business. You have to be willing to advertise. You have to currently be advertising. You have to have a product already. We don’t work with newbies, etc.” and the final step is you make them qualify, which is you ask them to apply to have the conversation.

That’s the thing we’re selling in any of these campaigns, whether it’s mid-level or cold. That’s the call to action. It’s not buy my stuff. It is sign up for the very next step which could lead to you buying my stuff with the full understanding from both parties that you might become a client and here’s how much it costs. So does that make sense from a fundamental level?

Keith: Yeah, absolutely. I’m going to kind of recap a little bit just to make sure we’re clear and if you’re listening, that you’re clear on this. So what you’re saying is you want to demonstrate you can help them by actually helping them. So they don’t care about you. They don’t care about us to the degree of what we think they care about us and this is huge. For your example, would that be kind of like your whiteboard video where you’re walking through like the future of this is what you have to do to be successful?

Frank: Exactly right. So within a mid-level campaign where they kind of already want the situation, you can literally go to that. You can actually have an ad and we run them. Our landing page will say something like, “Would you like us to design a custom marketing blueprint for you for free. Here’s why we’re doing it, etc. Fill in your name and email address for more information” and they see a video that basically outlines what I just said. Hey, here’s why we’re doing it, here’s the advantage, here’s what you get, here’s how much it costs to become a client, here’s what you get as a client, etc. Don’t worry. It’s not going to suck. We’re not going to high pressure sale you and if you think it was horrible, we’ll give you $200. That’s just a very straightforward mid-level campaign that’s carefully targeted to people who understand what it is you’re talking about.

Now in a cold campaign, you’ll make that same offer but you don’t make it immediately. In a cold campaign, they’re opting in for something that doesn’t mention any of the free stuff you’re willing to do, it doesn’t mention your product, nothing. It’s like the five ways to grow tomatoes or whatever it may be let’s say if you were a tomato consultant, which is a booming business I’m sure. So they’ll opt in for the report, here are the five ways to grow tomatoes and then you start sending them content and the content is genuinely helpful.

So let’s say there are four big things you’ve got to do to have great tomatoes. The first step is to choose the proper fertilizer. So you might send them the video and that video is like hey guys, the first thing you have to do is choose the right fertilizer. Here’s what to look for in a fertilizer, here’s what never to use and then right at the end of that video you segue into the irresistible offer, which is, “By the way, if you’re watching this video and you’re really serious about having great tomatoes, I’ve set aside some time to personally talk to you to help you come up with the ultimate plan for your perfect tomato garden regardless of where you live and here’s what we’re going to do in the call. Here’s why I’m doing it. Here’s how much it costs if you become a client. It’s not a sales pitch in disguise. If you think it sucks, I’ll do something cool for you. Here are the types of people I can only help. Right. You do that.

So what we’d understand now is two things: 1) not everybody is going to watch that first video so we’ll deal with them later; 2) of the ones who do watch that first video, most of them will not apply for the conversation which is fine. That’s why we make videos 2, 3 and 4.

Keith: Okay, I’m going to have you repeat that one more time just in case, if you’re listening right now, you didn’t actually hear that because a lot of people, they hear these gurus giving these examples and they think they should be getting 45% opt-ins and then 20% of people booking a call and then they think they should have like 50% to 75% of them show up. It’s a bummer because the expectation’s unrealistic so they’re setting themselves up to be disappointed.

Frank: Well, you could potentially get those numbers if the person had no idea what you were selling and what it costs, but why would you ever want to talk to someone in that situation? You’re going to have a very high probability of them saying no to you and them being disappointed with your call. So I would rather them enter the call, I’d rather have fewer people to talk to but all of them understanding that yeah, I’m calling because I’m interested in becoming a client and I know exactly how much it costs. I don’t want to surprise anybody. That would be terrible.

So you kind of treat people the way you would want people to treat you and that has always worked really, really well for me. So I will, to be perfectly clear, you’re a 100% right. For our business. if we get a hundred people to opt in for the report — in our case it’s the whiteboard workshop video — we might get 1.5% to 2% of them to apply to talk to us and that’s fine because we’re selling expensive stuff. We don’t care. It costs us about $1,500 to $2,000 in marketing expense to acquire a customer whose average value is right around $15,000 so I’m okay with that. I’ll spend two grand at the high end to acquire a $15,000 customer.

Keith: Okay, I’ve got a question on that. So what do you think the average, and you might not have a number, for this but the ballpark average time you get somebody that takes that $15,000 dollar offer from the time that they click the first ad? What do you think the average time is to go from being a visitor to a customer?

Frank: Most of the people who opt in to see a video won’t watch the video. That means the last thing you need to be doing, especially if your video was long — ours is 55 minutes, I think; it’s a very long presentation — the last thing we want to do is immediately give it to them. We want to give them a thank-you page that says, hey I’ve sent you a link to the video. The reason we do that is we want to track to see if they watch. If they never click to watch it in the first place, which anywhere between 15% to 25% of them won’t, we need to have a contingency campaign. That’s thing #1 that nobody ever talks about.

The thing #2 is we’ll measure their behavior and if they leave without finishing it, we’ll know and we’ll send them an email and we’ll say, “Hey, you didn’t finish it. You missed the best part. Here’s a link to go back and watch it” and we’ll actually set an expiration date for the video. We’ll take it away if they don’t watch it so that gives a sense of urgency. That’s real, by the way. It’s not pretend scarcity or whatever.

So let’s assume they actually watched the video. Well, of the people who watched the video, we might get 0.5%. That’s a two-day process so we’ll give them two days to watch it. So we might get 0.5% apply from that video because it’s a very, very good video and it’s really demonstrating you could help them by actually helping them, following the golden rule there. They’re applying to talk to us, knowing that they’re going to be given the opportunity to buy something very expensive so naturally the conversion rate isn’t that high. That’s okay because we don’t want to talk to anyone unless they actually want to become customers.

So the next phase is the follow up. We have about a seven-day follow up sequence. There are around five pieces of content that happen afterwards only delivered to the people who finish the video. And that entire process therefore is going to be from opt-in to application. We might end up with 1.5% to 2% of them overall, depending on traffic source and that’s going to be a nine-day process.

Keith: You know what’s incredible is that one of the things I think that I probably read from you awhile back was that the human brain is preprogrammed to say no and we have to think as marketers in that way instead of going into it with more of an optimistic viewpoint thinking everybody wants to work with us. I think what you’re talking about here sort of after you get the click and once they actually take that first engagement with you, let’s say they get the video, 50% or higher are never getting even going to watch it, never going to download it. That’s where 99% or maybe even greater of marketers stop. But it’s all in the follow up and expecting them to not do the thing you want them to do because they’re programmed to say no to begin with. If people can kind of wrap their heads around that, like as soon as I read that from you, I was like now it makes sense from a human psychology standpoint why this works because we all want to be optimistic.

Frank: And they’re not even really saying no. They’re just falling prey to procrastination or nudity. Them not watching the video doesn’t mean they don’t like you or something. It’s just yeah, they got 1 out of 700 emails today and one of them happened to be the video they asked for. They said, I’ll watch it later as soon as I look at naked pictures of whoever, Ryan Deiss, which are really worth looking at, I mean he’s a lovely man. Then they’re out in La La Land and they come back tomorrow and their email is like Facebook, like a Facebook newsfeed. Your stuff is gone within four hours of them receiving it. It’s buried in their inbox somewhere so it has nothing to do with you.

So what we’ll do is we will build a contingency for those who never watched the video. We might put them into an automated webinar, for example, if they don’t watch the video and the automated webinar might make the exact same offer which is, “Hey, if you like us to build, to create a marketing blueprint for you for free, we’d be delighted. Here’s why we’re doing it. A certain amount of people become clients. Here’s what you get as a client. Here’s how much it costs. Don’t worry. We’re not going to high pressure sales you. This isn’t some boiler room out of Utah or just a couple of guys out here in San Diego. In fact, if you think the experience was terrible and you didn’t like it then we’ll give you $200. And if you do like it then you could just do it on your own or if you want to become a client, that’s fine” so really low key.

So we have a contingency if they never watch the video. If they do watch the video but they haven’t applied they have now gone from cold to warm. So we’ll put them into a mid-level or low hanging fruit campaign after that because the cold campaign actually did its job which is change the temperature of that prospect.

Keith: Exactly. His cold video, it’s a 50 minute video and it’s a demo. It’s not a sales video that’s been scripted out. It’s Frank being authentic, just walking you through what he does and demonstrating. This is why we’ve had clients work. If they just added one more thing above that where they could just completely demo their software instead of forcing people to set up a call just to see the software they would actually just show how it works, show how it’s helping people and then your mid-level campaign could be getting people on a call to talk about the service a little bit more, right? I’ve seen this a lot where a lot of times people won’t have a high enough up cold kind of campaign and then most people, even if they’re an advanced marketer, won’t have those contingencies in place which is where the real profit is.

Ralph: Frank, can you give maybe just an example — I know you work with a lot of different companies, a lot of different business — of someone who you’ve implemented this with that maybe was naïve to this whole strategy and it really did work to convert that cold traffic into warm and then obviously hot and to customers?

Frank: Man, the best is financial services markets. The common thing in the financial advisor market is they’ll spend around $10,000 a month sending 7,000 of mail, maybe it’s 7,000, sending 10,000 pieces of mail, the goal of which is to drive someone to register to attend a workshop and typically the workshop is offline. Of the people who register, X% will attend. Of the ones who attend, X% will ask for an appointment. Of the ones who get an appointment, X% will show up. Of the ones who show up, X% will become clients of the advisor and there’s never, ever anything built in place to scoop the Y% that don’t do any of that stuff. So of the ones who register, Y% of them will not show up. Of the ones who show up, Y% of them will not request an appointment. Of the ones who request of an appointment, Y% of them will not show up for the appointment and of the ones who show up, Y% will not become clients. And they have no contingencies and that’s usually when we see just fantastic growth because it’s so easy. It’s an industry that’s successful in spite of bad marketing.

Ralph: What are some of those contingencies that you throw in there like when somebody say no along the process there? Obviously the Y is much greater than the X but what are some of the ideas just for people that are listening that say all right, that’s great; Frank is brilliant with this sort of stuff but it doesn’t apply to my business. What would you say to those folks in those instances?

Frank: Well, if they’re my competition, I’d say you’re exactly right; please don’t do it.

Ralph: Good, to keep them away from it.

Frank: I’m detached. I don’t really care if they think that or not. It has nothing to do with me. However, the ones who want to do it within the example of the financial advisor, the thing that must occur so we have to say you reverse engineer what has to happen for them to become a client. #1, they have to sign some paperwork. Okay, what must immediately occur before they sign some paperwork? They have to show up in the office. What must immediately occur before they show up in the office? They’d have to request an appointment.

Well, right there from appointment request to show up, we can build something called an indoctrination sequence or a [crosstalk 00:30:46] sequence in fact that gives the prospect value and overcomes fears before they even show up, which is going to do two things. It’s going to increase their likelihood of showing up because you’ve demonstrated you can help them by helping them in advance and you’re already more familiar to them. The second thing it’s going to do is it’s going to diminish their resistance to becoming customers because you’ve already bonded with them.

That same psychology can be applied from the moment they sign up to attend the event to before they attend the event. So one of the things that advisors will do is the person registers for the event and instead of just getting directions to the event, they’re FedExed a box of cool stuff, a book written by the advisor, a book of testimonials from the advisor’s customers, a little DVD that teaches them some cool stuff, some cookies, a little mug with some cocoa so they can eat cookies and drink the cocoa while they’re watching the DVD. All of that stuff makes the next step likely to occur, which is the show up rate, right?

Keith: Same thing in a webinar, right?

Frank: Exactly. So if someone registers for a webinar, our first job is to get them to show up. Well, the easiest way to get them to show up is to help them in advance of the webinar. So give them a video that teaches them some cool stuff and then reminds them. Then the day before the webinar, they’re getting another video that teaches some cool stuff and then reminds them. Then you send a reminder series. So you have, whether they show up or not, let’s say they showed up, well okay, did they see the offer or not? Let’s say they saw the offer but didn’t buy. Well, if they saw the offer and didn’t buy, it wasn’t because they weren’t interested. They stayed through the whole dang thing and didn’t buy because they’re normal. They’re not supposed to buy, right? Our parents always told us don’t make hasty financial decisions. That’s what stupid people do.

So naturally, we don’t want to beat them over the head and say go watch the replay 9,000 times. We want to continue to deliver value so we’ll send a value video that restates the offer made on the webinar then we’ll wait a day. We acknowledge and thank them for showing up. We’ll send them another value to restate the offer and then if they still don’t buy then maybe we’ll put them in a countdown sequence that says hey listen, the offer we made on the webinar is expiring in the next days, all of which can be done through InfusionSoft, with genuine scarcity and it can actually make the offer go away instead of the typical shenanigans where it never really goes. It actually does so it causes people to know that you’re not full of baloney. All that process and all of that logic really applies no matter what you’re selling. I’ve literally just helped a guy who sells $100,000 software stuff to hospitals that help hospitals identify and prevent resistance to antibiotics, which therefore prevents around 25 to 75 unnecessary hospital deaths a year. It’s the same thing. It doesn’t matter. You just reverse engineer what’s going to happen and then build little contingencies to make sure each process works.

Keith: Okay, so we’re running out of time so we’re going to wrap this up but we’ll put any relevant links on the show notes so make sure you go to to check out the show notes. But Frank, what would be the place to send people to kind of see this in action and to kind of come into that world if they’re not already.

Frank: Well, if you want to see how we do it, if you go to, you’ll see a little thing where you can opt in for something called The Future of Internet Marketing. That’s that 55-minute video. Behave however you want to in there. You can either hold off on watching it and see what happens and then you can start it or stop it and then see what happens in a couple of hours if you don’t finish. Then if you finish it and don’t apply to talk to us, you’ll see all kinds of other stuff happening. Each one is just literally part of the process, just like I told you, just trying to move the prospect towards the next logical procession in the grand scheme of stuff that must occur in order before they say yes.

Keith: It’s sometimes tough to know what somebody is like behind the scenes but I just want to say that just over the last several weeks, I’ve gotten to know you pretty well and I like you, Frank, as a person besides all of the business stuff. He’s one of the most genuine, I guess one of the most—

Frank: Physically attractive.

Keith: Physically attractive, yeah.

Frank: Yeah, I had to put on 30 extra pounds as a courtesy to extra men recently or other men just to sort of level the playing field.

Keith: Generous! That’s the word I was looking for. So one of the most genuine and generous people that I’ve ever met and I’m saying that 100% serious. I just appreciate you being that way so I just you opt-in to his stuff because his stuff does work. He shows you from experience. It’s not all theory. It’s what’s working right now and it’s authentic. So I appreciate that and definitely go check that out.

Frank: And I promise to aggressively try to sell you something but in a friendly way.

Ralph: You know what’s really cool. I’ve actually opted in a couple of different times to see what my behaviors and actually what happens and every single time it’s different. So it’s really cool. I would recommend everybody to opt in just to sort of see it. And bear in mind, all along the way, Frank is convincing you to come into his funnel as well. Hopefully, that will happen for a few of you because it’s definitely worthwhile because this is really good, deep level stuff.

Keith: All right. Well, appreciate you coming on. I learned a lot, took a ton of notes and I hope you did, too, listening. And we will talk to you all soon.

You’ve been listening to Perpetual Traffic with Keith Krance, Molly Pittman and Ralph Burns. For more information and to get the resources mentioned in this episode, visit Thank you for listening.

[End of audio]